pets

[Goranothos]

Max Normal hit: 473 Looks like it's working on live as well since about 470 is where the max normal hit should be for an EM 4 focused 86 air pet.

That sounds reasonable.

Okay, in that case I think Goranthos just mistook a crit for a real hit, and the pets are essentially unchanged from late Beta.

So, the pet DPS is a minor upgrade, at best.

I was using an EM7 pet. It's possible I made a mistake, however. It was late and I was sleepy. I'll check again today when I get home and let you know.

[Gnomeland]

Cool, thanks Goranthos.

But I was a little hasty when I posted that as well.

Now that I have some time to think about it, you might actually be right. If we take Failcon's tests, the average hit (with EM 8) was in the 400s which is consistent with Voranthos's, but he fought against level 86+ mobs. His max hit on the other hand was in the 900s, whereas with EM 4 the max hit was only in the 700s. A 200 point difference in max hit can roughly translate to a 100 point difference in normal hit if the crit is really the max crit, which would roughly mean that the max hit on the EM 8 pet was in the 570s or 580s. So your scenario is not unplausible - it's just very surprising and makes me think the devs didn't actually bother to CREATE EM 4 86 pets (remember they have to create a new "focused" version of the pet for each focus level), or intentionally decided that they were going to make EM 4 really, really bad and then to have the pet jump virtually 100+ pts of damage in 3 EM levels.

As I said I don't have the expansion so am just going off of what other people are saying.

We really need parses and it's great that we're getting some of them.

[Voragath]

There is a pet for EM 4. There's a few things that can factor in like mob mitigation, aa's, whatever. The EM 4 pet is doing considerably better than the base pet.

What happens is, the scaling for EM focii are terrible this year. The gains weren't as huge as in the past. Ean did a big parse and posted it in beta, so maybe he still has the data and can show it. Either the beta forums have been taken down already or my browser is bugged (this happens often with eqlive) and I am not being shown the beta forums.

You really shouldn't expect to see EM 4 to be a big boost anyway since it's so easy to get and it was the first raid pet focus in 2 year old content. The gains, pre-final tune weren't very large, like 3%'ish I think between each focus after EM 8. The gains are just really, really small.

Without tables, though, it's hard to tell where everything should be. They just wouldn't give us these tables this year.

[Gnomeland]

Voragath, did we get tables last year? The only one I can find in the library is the table for SOD and it only scales up to EM 5. If there is a huge jump in EM 6-EM 8 that would explain the disparity, but as data collection has lapsed for the past 1-2 years there is no way to tell whether this is surprising or standard.

If it is standard, and gains were small across the board, then I believe we need to be more vocal straight away. With most classes receiving major DPS buffs, mob difficulty going up, mob hps generally being multiplied, there is NO EXCUSE for mage pets to stay stagnant whether DPS-wise or mitigation-wise.

It is unacceptable.

[svenalo]

Far as I know we had no tables the last two years from the devs.

[Goranothos]

Well, I just got home from work and tested it again. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, my pet (EM7, Burnout 8 RK2, and the aura) is max hitting for 581. This is against some trash mobs in Thalassus, the Coral Keep. These were not crits, but normal hits. I saw the number over and over again, many times. If I turned the aura off, the max hit dropped to 574.

Sorry, I don't have a parser installed.

[Gnomeland]

Okay... So let's summarize.

According to this thread: http://www.eqmagetower.com/forums/viewt ... ?f=24&t=83" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 81 pet with EM 4 hits for 399 UNBUFFED.

The 86 pet, if what people say is true, hits for 404 UNBUFFED.

There is virtually no difference between the two.

However, according to Voragath here: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts ... _id=169681" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, a jump in 46 damage was observed between EM 4 and EM 5, such that the 86 pet with EM 5 hits for 450 UNBUFFED. This does NOT corroborate with the data for the 81 pet, which according to the table should hit for 407 UNBUFFED.

Assuming a similar trend is held between EM 5 and EM 6, and between EM 6 and EM 7, it then makes sense that Goranthos's pet hit for 581 max, normal hit, with BO and Aura. Without BO and Aura, it would've been closer to 550 which is consistent with a 50 dmg jump from 400 (at EM 4), to 450 (at EM 5), to 500 (at EM 6), and 550 (at EM 7).

This implies to me that the devs made EM 4 a "trash" focus at the same time that they made it available to everyone. A classic bait and switch!

[Finduilas]

I don't have parses to show, but I just tested the 86 Air pet in Walls of Slaughter. Without any buffs or focus it hits for 404, like you said. With EM4 and no buffs it hits for 434 max.

[Gnomeland]

Alright, it looks like we're getting conflicting numbers. I'm tempted to throw out the 404 (EM 4) outlier, so that we have 404 (no EM, no buffs) as the base hit for the 86 pet, which would be consistent with a 440ish hit using BO Rk. 2 and Aura. This is better base scaling (it is an increase of 78 pts over the 81 pet, which max hit for 326 with no EM and no buffs). But it is worse EM scaling (EM 4 has a much lesser effect, relatively speaking, than it did on the 81 pet - perhaps commensurate with the fact that they're now "degrading" the EMs like focus effects). Still, the question remains as to the EM scaling, as it seems a huge jump from 473 to 581 in just 3 EM levels (from EM 4 -> EM 7).

NOTE: Can you guys specify whether you're factoring in the HOT Spectral Shortswords, which might be generating a higher base damage on pets.

Can we get a set of UNBUFFED damage tests for:

86 pet without EM
86 pet with Spire Servant
86 pet with EM 2
86 pet with EM 4
86 pet with EM 6
86 pet with EM 7
86 pet with EM 8

(All the common foci I can think of people having)

All done in a lower level zone? It doesn't need to be a parse. Just a max normal hit test would be fine.

While we're at it, we might as well test max hp as well using Symbiosis, since that is so much easier to parse than defense and ac, which would take ages.

Thanks.

[Finduilas]

I did the tests with the pet naked. No weapons, no buffs, nothing, just summoned it and sent it at grey mobs in Walls of Slaughter.

86 pet without EM - 404 Max Hit

86 pet with EM 2 - 404 Max Hit again (tested it many times on different mobs)

86 pet with EM 4 - 434 Max Hit