New Spells for Next Expansion:

[bluejaye]

when are you mages gonna realize that jumpin on every new poster might not be the best thing for the class? i recall a thread a while back cautioning some of you to scale down your tone because it silences new voices on these forums. savil, i don't know you other than these boards, but kindly stfu. you may be the best mage ever, i don't really care. what i do care about is that people come here with ideas and we figure out if they'll work for our class. keep the guild war crap out of this discussion. not everyone that posts ideas has to know every nuance of the class. very few people come here posting misleading information to confuse others. we post what works for us and what our experiences in game are. they may not be the best possible, but shuttin down open discussion isn't the best for our class either.

i hope you continue to post, agastya. welcome to the boards.

[Savil]

Hrmm, I thought for a few before I answered this, so here goes...

I will not "STFU" as you have so kindly *requested*. You have come to an issue that was dead and gone for a while now and toss a message out like that, its almost like you're *trying* to start things up. I'm all for ideas, but I'm also for common sense.

When people ask for the same old things over and over the devs tune out. They have told us this time and time again, and guess what? *I DON'T BLAME THEM AT ALL* It must feel like we are too stupid to understand when we were told no the first 3 or 4 times. A great example of this is cross zone CoH, or reverse CoH. They have told us NO on this so many times its unreal, yet every single year some moron asks for it again (which pisses off the devs). When we are fragmented and ask for so many different things they devs just use there best judgement (which is usually a very bad thing) and mages all get smurf for yet another year. Some of us have seen this play out so many times in the past that we are just flat out sick of it and clamp down hard when we see it happening yet again.

Something you should keep in mind, just as people are free to come here and post stupid (or hopefully good) ideas, people are just as free to point out when they are completely off the wall (just just flat out stupid). We all are adults, and if you think other classes don't have the same thing going on you're nuts.

I will assume you're directing the guild war crap at PJ, from what I remember he wasn't really insulting his guild as much as he was pointing out something the guy claimed that wasn't true. Personally I don't have an issue with his guild, but I do remember other mages bitching about how bad Agastya is.

I don't know where you're getting the "misleading information" stuff or even where you're coming from, the guy was clearly out in left field, and when he was called on it he decided the best course of action was to insult my ability / knowledge as a mage. Which he got called out on.

If somebody posts they are doing such and such and somebody on this board points out how they could be doing it better, I see zero harm in that (if you do .. your crazy). Its completely up to the person in question if they want to actually do what is being suggested to them. In this case Agastya was clearly wrong, and then got called out on it. I don't see a real problem.

TBH I see far more issue with you restarting this thread to say what you did. In short, if you don't like what I said please point out where I was wrong, coming at me with a "STFU" is a GREAT way to start up pointless drama.

Savil

[Voragath]

I think everyone should stop worrying about what gets to the devs. It's my responsibility to filter what gets to the devs, as a CRT.

If someone's idea is bad or has continually been bad, I won't forward that. Examples include: killing pet for better dps, reverse coh, cross-zone coh, and pets persisting through our death.

I will forward ideas that the community is behind or are quite novel and beneficial.

There, now everyone can stop screaming down ideas and attacking each other.

[Piemastaj]

You dare to dream Vora.

As to the guild thing Blue, I don't like when people lie. Agastya lied about when her guild finished the expansion and I corrected it. Again facts are facts, if you have soft feelings then you should make sure you check your post for accuracy before posting as a raiding Mage. Raiding Mage makes people assume you know what your talking about, it simply is not always the case.

[Savil]

I for one welcome out new overlord Voragath and let him and him only control all input to the devs from this point on!

On a serious note, many of us had the same thoughts with the last "CRT" members as well. I don't see the harm is saying an idea is bad, or saying that an idea has been turned down several times in the past (a lot of times the answer was not no, but HELL NO, NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN). Totally no offense intended towards you Vora, but while you might in a single point of contact for ideas at large to the devs, you're not for ideas on this board... and lets face it, many class members talk to the devs about ideas all the time as well. I know PJ / Wire / Myself did all the time.

Savil

[deadman1204]

Gotta agree with Bluejaye on this one - not every single post needs your opinion posted on it savil.
And reading between the lines of your last post is a big FU to Vora who does alot more work around here than most of us

[Piemastaj]

Gotta agree with Bluejaye on this one - not every single post needs your opinion posted on it savil.
And reading between the lines of your last post is a big FU to Vora who does alot more work around here than most of us

First off, these boards are open to opinions. Whether or not someone chooses to agree with your opinion is up to that person. Whether or not they choose to post about their disagreement, is again up to that person. Savil and myself choose to not be fake and post when we think something is dumb or wrong or whatever. It is simply an opinion, sometimes backed up by facts or passed experiences. If we were not allowed to express our opinions then these boards would have 0 activity in them.

Vora's post is a bigger FU to people not under the CRT title who are helping. You should not be so quick to dismiss his post. You chose to do so. It comes off as he is the ruler of Mages so to speak, and all ideas must come through him. Which plain and simple they do not. They might make their way around via the boards, but they do not always go through him or anyone else. He also does not dismiss ideas straight away like he claims, which he probably shouldn't seeing as he is a CRT for our class so he should be sending most if not all of the ideas he gets.

There is fault on both sides. Being a CRT member does not mean everything must flow through you, it is simply another channel we can use. That also does not mean CRTs do nothing either.

[Savil]

Gotta agree with Bluejaye on this one - not every single post needs your opinion posted on it savil.
And reading between the lines of your last post is a big FU to Vora who does alot more work around here than most of us

I'm FAR from posting on every single thread. I'm very surprised anybody would even say something that could so easily disproved with a quick look at my post history. That said, lets look at some quick facts, time and time again people are told to search a board (not just ours) for an answer before posting a question. In this case his idea had been shot down time and time again, both on other boards, and this one (hell I think even int he same thread!).

Given that this guy claimed to have been playing the class for *years* I'm surprised he didn't already know that 1/2 his ideas had been answered no by the devs time and time again. This was on top of the fact some of his ideas were *stupid*. Yes, I said *stupid*. That is my opinion, which in this case was backed up by several people in the thread. I said as much and I'll not apologize to you for having an opinion. Sorry if you have a problem with this, but if you would like to call out something specific I said I'd be happy to eat crow if needed.

As for your comments on Vora, I said up front I didn't intend offense. Its kinda funny how somebody other than Vora is posted he was offended by what was said. I think Vora is a big boy and can defend himself if he thinks I'm being mean. As for how hard he works, I can't answer that one way or another anymore. You act as if you KNOW FOR A FACT nobody else is working just as hard or harder which is quite honestly *stupid*.

Let me know when its considered normal to spend HOURS and HOURS in the arena parsing to correct the new DPS weave like Wire / PJ / Myself did, or parse for DAYS at the devs request to get things fixed. I know of only 4 people that have been asked to do this for the devs, and your not one of them. I know that wire / pj / mara / myself have spend FAR FAR too much time parsing and bug checking that the entire class for the benefit of. Just because I don't play anymore doesn't mean the time I put into the class suddenly counts for nothing. You might think about the time others have invested into the class (that you admit you haven't) before you open your mouth the next time, you might just avoid getting your 2nd foot into your mouth.

Again, I don't know if Vora has spent the HOURS and HOURS of parsing or asking other mages for parse data left and right to help the class. Maybe he has ... maybe he hasn't. I don't know as I've never asked him. I would *HOPE* the class CRT has, its kinda the job he did volunteer for.

While I'm on the topic, people really need to wake up and understand something, if it were not for a handful of people parsing and figuring our new weaves this class would be in far worse shape than it is currently. While I'm not intending this next statement as an insult to Vora (he could very well be doing this stuff, lets see what he says) what is *really* thankless is the people our spend hundreds of man hours parsing for the devs. This is time that isn't spend making your toon better, helping friends, or just BSing with friends, or just not playing and watching TV. This is time spent being bored off your ass, I know because I was one of them, and I know for a fact PJ was as well. You seem to think CRT's are the only people that have worked their asses off for this class and you're completely full of smurf. Sad thing is I think even Vora would say you're wrong here.

Savil

[Calebe]

When people ask for the same old things over and over the devs tune out. They have told us this time and time again, and guess what? *I DON'T BLAME THEM AT ALL* It must feel like we are too stupid to understand when we were told no the first 3 or 4 times.

Mages were told I can't tell how many time we will never get Invis to undead. Well as we all know hell froze over and we got not only a invis to undead, but a group version as well as it being perm duration.

The end result is asking for something they said no to for years does not mean they won't change their minds, and that is a perfect example. I don't recall anyone even asking for it, but it showed up. So this idea of them tuning us out maybe true but facts are they are running out of idea's for new AA's and just making a new version to go up with levels is not going to cut it. New things are needed and ideas they said no to in the past may become a yes, not because they want to, but to make something new people want. I have no idea what that would be, but to infer Savil because they said no for ages doesn't meant it can't change, it has.

Other examples we were never going to get a cold based spell. What happed was better, instead of a weak ice based spell we would rarely to never use, we got an ice clicky that can be used between spell refresh timer. Invis to undead as mentioned. Pet heals, was always a huge no but now we have them. Lets not forget drape, mages with an escape? Told no, however as all classes got one, so did we. Things change is my point. Never throw away an idea because they said NO in the past. Some no's eventually became a yes, ever after it was stopped being asked for.

Calebe

[Piemastaj]

There is a difference b/t things that require code change NOs. And NOs that are like a cold nuke or a IVU spell. Those are NOs based on developers choice, those people change. Which means those NOs can become yes's. IVU, Cold Nukes, and everyone has a fade that is a weak selling point. Those are all easy things to implement. Our Fade is also one of if not the worst fade in the game, so that goes doubly against a good selling point.

Pet swap: Not easy. Cross zone coh: Not easy. Those require code work to be done. It is not as simple as adding Mage to a spell line, or putting in an AA. Consistently asking for CODE work to be done is stupid.

This is along the same lines that Elidroth said, we have Mages asking for things that simply won't be done on a yearly basis. Things that are also more fluff then anything (while I do like Pet swap, it is far from necessary). And then we have Mages trying to get the overall class helped, and things get lost in the shuffle. It would be kewl if we could have everything we ask for and more, but the reality is we can not. And the fluff stuff got us into a severly bad situation in the past, most of us would rather not see that come about again.