New Spells for Next Expansion:

[Voragath]

I for one welcome out new overlord Voragath and let him and him only control all input to the devs from this point on!

Savil

Wait..what? This is not true? Let me reread that contract....hmm..fine print...ah, yes. Nope, it is not. Snookered again!

[Voragath]

On a serious note, many of us had the same thoughts with the last "CRT" members as well. I don't see the harm is saying an idea is bad, or saying that an idea has been turned down several times in the past (a lot of times the answer was not no, but HELL NO, NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN). Totally no offense intended towards you Vora, but while you might in a single point of contact for ideas at large to the devs, you're not for ideas on this board... and lets face it, many class members talk to the devs about ideas all the time as well. I know PJ / Wire / Myself did all the time.

Savil

Sorry, but I had to break this up so serious and fun posts didn't get mixed up.

Yes, many talk to the devs. And I encourage mages to still do so. However, I am here to represent the class as a whole so one single voice does not drown out the others. Which was my point. One person with a bad idea should not be seen as a threat; thus being attacked. If the idea is bad, mention why and move on.

Too many people are getting emotional over things as if the mere mention of an idea is going to make it happen. I don't mind people discussing that it's bad either*. That way, I can go to the devs and say, "yeah, that idea mage x sent you last week, the mage community is hell bent against that idea." The reverse is also true: good ideas get pushed.

*Actually, I don't care how anyone discusses it. I look for pros and cons through all the noise. My only agenda is to find out what the mage community agrees on and their solutions, and make sure the devs are aware. Then, I keep pushing those matters for resolutions. So, yeah, you're right: I'm not for ideas on this board.

[Voragath]

Vora's post is a bigger FU to people not under the CRT title who are helping. You should not be so quick to dismiss his post. You chose to do so. It comes off as he is the ruler of Mages so to speak, and all ideas must come through him. Which plain and simple they do not. They might make their way around via the boards, but they do not always go through him or anyone else. He also does not dismiss ideas straight away like he claims, which he probably shouldn't seeing as he is a CRT for our class so he should be sending most if not all of the ideas he gets.

Hmm, that was not my intent to sound like some ruler or super filter. But I will clearly lay out to the devs what the community does and does not want if it is known to me. Not all ideas do, nor should, flow through me. Would it help me out? Immensely. Would I recommend it? Never. I have my reasons for that and some people who've been around a long time probably understand why.

Dismiss? I'm assuming you mean just out of hand without any consideration; and I don't do that. If you mean dismiss as in don't waste time on it; I do that with ideas I already know the devs won't/can't budge on because I'd rather spend time on things that can get accomplished.

[Voragath]

While I'm on the topic, people really need to wake up and understand something, if it were not for a handful of people parsing and figuring our new weaves this class would be in far worse shape than it is currently. While I'm not intending this next statement as an insult to Vora (he could very well be doing this stuff, lets see what he says) what is *really* thankless is the people our spend hundreds of man hours parsing for the devs. This is time that isn't spend making your toon better, helping friends, or just BSing with friends, or just not playing and watching TV. This is time spent being bored off your ass, I know because I was one of them, and I know for a fact PJ was as well. You seem to think CRT's are the only people that have worked their asses off for this class and you're completely full of smurf. Sad thing is I think even Vora would say you're wrong here.

Savil

I do parsing (people may not know but I did a lot of the pet parsing during the past 2 betas), just not the same or extensive parsing everyone else does. I used to but being a CRT causes me other priorities as well. I also am not in a top 20 guild so I can't get the parses like PJ gets. So, I do, and have, ask him and other players about those. It's just the responsible thing to do. But we all do play a part here and people other than me have sent in their parse data; which all mages should appreciate. The new parser the devs unveiled at VoA may make that less necessary in the future but we'll see about that.

As to what CRT's do, I can't really expound on what we have done and contributed to. I can say that to claim CRT's do more than anyone else would be dishonest. CRT's are all different and do different things. I would love to tell you all the stuff I have done over the past year because some of you would be surprised; however, I'm under NDA to even that. I will say, the work you see me do visibly doesn't even scratch the surface of the work I do behind the scenes but that goes for other mages as well.

And curse you, Savil! I have to agree that there are many people who have done stuff without thanks. People who have never mentioned they even did it and I've never seen anyone complain they weren't thanked. You need only look at the beta boards if you ever get in to see that.

[dorfillya]

I, for one, would like to see the end of any negative words used to describe any other mages that decides to post on this board. I have read and posted here, and on the old board, and on EQ boards for about 12 years, although I do not post frequently. I know several new mages may have ideas that are "new" to them, but have actually been batted around for several of the previous expansions. Even some of us older mages, sometimes don't understand why "code changes" can prevent us from getting things we would want. Anybody with ANY ideas that he would like to see implemented should be encouraged to post his thoughts here, and if some of us old timers don't like the idea, then we should just take it with a grain of salt and move on.

As, in the past, many things that mages needed seemed to get skipped over, because we seemed to do nothing but bicker over what we wanted. We must show a united front, or we will suffer for it. If you must really be negative or argumentive with another mage, please do so in private messages. No matter how much we fight behind closed doors, we must present ourselves as a united brotherhood to others.

Personally, I am even out of ideas for new spells (or AAs). I have enough buttons and hotkeys to push now. I would be happy if the new expansion just increased our old spells enough to keep our grouping ability where it is at now, and increase our raid dps enough to be competitive with other dps classes.

[Piemastaj]

You can disagree and be united on issues. Disagreeing allows for people to explain why something is wrong. Keeping it behind closed doors is only helpful for 2 people, discussing it informs many.

[Danille]

Thank god we don't have this situation here yet!

Forum Elitist

A message board user who believes themselves to be superior to other members. This condescending attitude is dictated by one or more of the following:

-Their number of posts
-Their registration date
-Their knowledge
-How "popular" they are among the other users

The forum elitist cannot accept the fact all members are on the same level, from the administrator to the lowly newbie. As a result, new users are generally treated with contempt and revulsion by the forum elitist, often when they have done nothing but registered at a later date.

A message board can be effectively ruined by forum elitists, as over time they breed, increase their numbers, and spawn an entire inbred forum monarchy, which actively seeks to rule the "peasants" of the board with an iron fist. This terrible fate has befallen more than one forum over the years, and is virtually irreversible once it has been established.

[Savil]

There is a difference b/t things that require code change NOs. And NOs that are like a cold nuke or a IVU spell. Those are NOs based on developers choice, those people change. Which means those NOs can become yes's. IVU, Cold Nukes, and everyone has a fade that is a weak selling point. Those are all easy things to implement. Our Fade is also one of if not the worst fade in the game, so that goes doubly against a good selling point.

Pet swap: Not easy. Cross zone coh: Not easy. Those require code work to be done. It is not as simple as adding Mage to a spell line, or putting in an AA. Consistently asking for CODE work to be done is stupid.

This is along the same lines that Elidroth said, we have Mages asking for things that simply won't be done on a yearly basis. Things that are also more fluff then anything (while I do like Pet swap, it is far from necessary). And then we have Mages trying to get the overall class helped, and things get lost in the shuffle. It would be kewl if we could have everything we ask for and more, but the reality is we can not. And the fluff stuff got us into a severly bad situation in the past, most of us would rather not see that come about again.

This is like the perfect answer to what was said. Thank you for typing it out and saving me the trouble

Savil

[Savil]

I completely agree with the fact we need (must) show a united front to the devs, its the only way we will actually get changes pushed into the next beta. This is the very reason I just flat out said an idea was bad, why and the fact that the devs had said over and over no to it. Many of the would require *insane* amounts of code to support them, which would demand almost all the dev time to our class for an entire beta.

I don't know about you guys but I wouldn't want to get *1* thing for an exp and have 5 other badly needed things get left out. This has happened several times in the past, where we were basically told they (devs) only had time to work so much on each class and if something was a real PITA other things would get dropped.

Given the fact this guy is / was a long time raider in a non trivial guild I would assume he would have seen this play out at least a few times already. So I didn't bother to sugar coat my answer.

Savil

[Savil]

Thank god we don't have this situation here yet!

Forum Elitist

A message board user who believes themselves to be superior to other members. This condescending attitude is dictated by one or more of the following:

-Their number of posts
-Their registration date
-Their knowledge
-How "popular" they are among the other users

The forum elitist cannot accept the fact all members are on the same level, from the administrator to the lowly newbie. As a result, new users are generally treated with contempt and revulsion by the forum elitist, often when they have done nothing but registered at a later date.

A message board can be effectively ruined by forum elitists, as over time they breed, increase their numbers, and spawn an entire inbred forum monarchy, which actively seeks to rule the "peasants" of the board with an iron fist. This terrible fate has befallen more than one forum over the years, and is virtually irreversible once it has been established.

I really hope I'm wrong here, but I'm going to assume this was directed at myself. Most of this I'm not going to directly address due to the fact I agreed to walk away from issues involving you, but there are a few things I would like to kindly point out.

1. You also agreed to do the same. Clearly your word doesn't mean much.
2. On the grand scale of things you have done *very* little to better the mage class up next to a lot of people on this board. What you have done is consistently nagged about stupid issues on both this board and in SW mage.

Its pretty clear that not all mages are at the same skill level, this isn't a crime, its just the natural order of things. On any class board people are going to suggest really stupid things, and some will have really *great* ideas. If you *honestly* think differently, well, you're stupid. I personally wouldn't have cared if the user was new, yourself, Vora, or PJ, if the idea is stupid, its going to be called out.

In most cases I'm willing to defend my position on a topic or my words to just about anybody (and I'm more than willing to eat crow when proven wrong) but to have you criticize almost anybody is just down right funny. What I remember of you is simple, you didn't parse, you had a poor viewpoint on raiders, you didn't help people that often in SW mage, and you really never contributed much of anything during beta. What you did do was get in the way of those that were.

When you have done 1 tenth of what Wire / PJ / Mala / Vora / myself have done I'll be happy to answer your criticism.

Savil