Roundtable Applications:

[Danille]

Every guild/raidleader has a different way of doing things. Actively discussing strats between guilds is taboo. Frankly, that means a mage that has experienced most/all content has the ability to do the job much better. Mid-tiers raiders are often operating off rumors disguised as leaked strats.

Actually it means three things.

1) Considering that fact we have very knowledgeable mages who are in HoT4 have vitrually no time to commit and some (who have not applied) because they know they have no chance of being selected due to their posting history on SoE and MT boards, we have to work together.

2) For some of the mages who have applied, (HoT4 and lower level raiders alike) if they are selected, the mage cummunity will have to make sure that the mage in the RT is properly informed, not just going off their personal opinion, as so many people have been vocal of mages going off half cocked on their own agenda. We have had examples of both group and raiding mages in the role before who have done this properly and improperly.

3) The vast majority of the time, when communicating to the developers, individual in game, class balance, etc. are the issues that need correcting. The detail of specific raid strats necesssary for a win are typically not a factor. That being said, if they ever were, I am cerrtain that the mages who are aware of the problem would communicate the issues properly


PS. hey conjem!

[Piemastaj]

Or stuff they read on elitegamer, Alla's, Raspers, and the like?

That said, I don't see where Pie discussed strats...he discussed raid mechanics and zone geometry with regard to how swarms work. There are more corners in the SS event rooms than he listed though (1, 2, 3, and 5 have them - whether they get used or not is a different issue based on whatever strategy).

Event 1 your talking about behind the pot where the tanks get stuck? And then you can not coh them out of there so they need to /rewind?

Event 2 there isn't a corner, maybe a wall but the mob just keeps going back. And if you keep pushing the mob back it moves the tanks away from the healers so the adds that spawn kill them.

Event 3s corner is really hard to get right with the different mob sizes. Not to mention your underwater so if you dont have push from the top to keep the mob down the mob will move up and then out of the corner.

Event 5, you actually do anything but kill adds? Because with our bolt and spear they can seriously smurf over a raid if you mis-time them. Not to mention the corner is far away from where the mob spawns and he dies insanely fast.

Generally it is a lot easier to not use them because of how geometry gets used with the stupid pots and such. Swarm is a major no-no on most mobs.

[Piemastaj]

Every guild/raidleader has a different way of doing things. Actively discussing strats between guilds is taboo. Frankly, that means a mage that has experienced most/all content has the ability to do the job much better. Mid-tiers raiders are often operating off rumors disguised as leaked strats.

I will disagree with the first part partially. The whole giving out strats is taboo until guilds start beating the expansion. The race is over and most people dont care anymore. Then the strats trickle down to the mid-teir guilds and such. I myself have given various guilds strats and such on events, doesn't mean they will work for that guild but it is how I am used to doing things.

I do agree a mage at the very end-game will probably be the most knowledgable for a position like this though. Problem with that is we raid hardcore for like 2 months until the expansion is beat then we have a lot of free time off like now. Currently only raiding 2 days a week. So communication can be hit or miss at either time (raiding too much so they are busy 24/7, raiding too few not online). But at the end it will set a good tone for what types of raids there are, how much mana is needed, where we are topping out at DPS-wise and such.

Now I am not saying a mid-teir or a grouper could not do this either. But they would have to actively LISTEN to raiding mages and bring up concerns or thoughts about issues. This is our key issue right now. We brought up various issues during beta and generally got ignored by the devs, and were abondoned by Tuli until the last few days of beta when it was really too late, that can't happen again.

[svenalo]

Event 1 your talking about behind the pot where the tanks get stuck? And then you can not coh them out of there so they need to /rewind?

We haven't had any tanks get stuck in either corner we use...and yeah, I think both have pots in them. I will have to ask if anyone's had to use /rewind in them - no one asks for COH because they know not to bother.

Event 2 there isn't a corner, maybe a wall but the mob just keeps going back. And if you keep pushing the mob back it moves the tanks away from the healers so the adds that spawn kill them.

Yeah...our strat on this one continues to evolve each week as we keep trying to find the best spot to fight. I personally hate this event with a passion. The spot I think is a corner or something is found as follows: enter the cloud from the door, go straight as far as it will let you, then go to the right as far as it will let you...seems to be a corner or maybe a dent in the wall there, but god, the graphics go all whacky looking out with your back to the start mob as well as if you turn and look toward him (at least on my monitor they do).

Event 3s corner is really hard to get right with the different mob sizes. Not to mention your underwater so if you dont have push from the top to keep the mob down the mob will move up and then out of the corner.

We use our same cornering positioning on this that we use on Borz in the Convo lava. Only the last named seems to pop around a little, but it's dead so fast (I think last time was like 50 seconds) that it hasn't been a big issue for us.

Event 5, you actually do anything but kill adds? Because with our bolt and spear they can seriously smurf over a raid if you mis-time them. Not to mention the corner is far away from where the mob spawns and he dies insanely fast.

Adds in the first phase through the third phase, adds if any spawn in the fourth phase but we are hoping our last strat change will eliminate that - unfortunately the outage has kept us from trying that. But we set up in a corner for those phases near the main room puzzle ramp for dealing with all those adds...and for phase 4 we are kicked out of that corner because that's where the tank wants to play with the mob. Think all of that positioning on this event, though, is just the preference of the two RL's because the corner doesn't help much beyond making it unlikely a mob is going to come in from the back.

Generally it is a lot easier to not use them because of how geometry gets used with the stupid pots and such. Swarm is a major no-no on most mobs.

True enough. On our raids we are allowed to use them on event 1 up through Hemlock...event 2 we can at the burn point...event 3 there is no point to doing it given how fast it dies...event 4 there isn't really a need for them - some use em, some don't on our raids...event 5 they haven't outlawed them yet, but we are constrained to fighting adds, and its pointless to use them on adds so it's sort of moot. Haven't gotten to 6 and 7 yet.

[Piemastaj]

On event 1 you will get stuck behind the pots. Happened to us many times. 2 there really isnt a corner there, the mob is in the middle of a big circle. And with the mezzes and such pets on that can make it a pita if u use them during a bad mezz and he runs at casters. 3 like you said it is pointless because he dies fast and you will lose a rag pet during swarm cast.

5 is a dumb event plain and simple. And trying to corner those adds is more of a pita then just killing them in the middle.

So like I said, no real fights that are optimal for swarm in SS. They can be used but can also majorly mess up your raid.

[svenalo]

So like I said, no real fights that are optimal for swarm in SS. They can be used but can also majorly mess up your raid.

That I agree with, although it is quite humorous watching various swarm pets chase Hemlock around the room in event 1 (any DPS they could do is lost as they do so of course, but it cracks me up).

[Conjem]

Every guild/raidleader has a different way of doing things. Actively discussing strats between guilds is taboo. Frankly, that means a mage that has experienced most/all content has the ability to do the job much better. Mid-tiers raiders are often operating off rumors disguised as leaked strats.

I will disagree with the first part partially. The whole giving out strats is taboo until guilds start beating the expansion. The race is over and most people dont care anymore. Then the strats trickle down to the mid-teir guilds and such. I myself have given various guilds strats and such on events, doesn't mean they will work for that guild but it is how I am used to doing things.

I do agree a mage at the very end-game will probably be the most knowledgable for a position like this though. Problem with that is we raid hardcore for like 2 months until the expansion is beat then we have a lot of free time off like now. Currently only raiding 2 days a week. So communication can be hit or miss at either time (raiding too much so they are busy 24/7, raiding too few not online). But at the end it will set a good tone for what types of raids there are, how much mana is needed, where we are topping out at DPS-wise and such.

The mechanics of a raid do not change. However, positioning can have a big impact. That is where a lower tier raider or group mage is handicapped by not knowing/seeing the event. Additionally, raid make-up has a big impact so even seeing a raid can often be a different experience between guilds.

[Aither]

I am looking forward to SOE coming back online. I hope that we actually do get another Magician on the roundtable.