NDA Lifted

A home for posts concerning previous expansions.
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Forte
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by Forte »

I started using rains selectively again after VoA launched. Best overall DPM in our arsenal, and if you communicate well with your group regarding mob placement, the rains can allow you to make an impressive contribution without having to chain RS or burn more often than might be advisable.

Goranothos, if you truely haven't casted any rains since Luclin, I think perhaps you do not know what you are missing...
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Tweelis
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by Tweelis »

Forte wrote:I started using rains selectively again after VoA launched. Best overall DPM in our arsenal, and if you communicate well with your group regarding mob placement, the rains can allow you to make an impressive contribution without having to chain RS or burn more often than might be advisable.
Does this include the anti-summoned nukes? i'm going to assume not but can't hurt to ask. Also somebody (I forgot who) said rains are all linked so chaining them isn't a good option in that regard; is that true?
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deadman1204
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by deadman1204 »

I'm not a raider, but I wonder about mage raid opportunities in RoF. Wizards get bonus damage on their ethereals vs raid mobs, which may or may not be enough to to tie them with berzerkers/rogues. (I read that the jury is out until melee get their new raid weapons).

Either way, what has changed for mages to let them compete with any melee class in a raid setting?
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Piemastaj
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by Piemastaj »

They were unlinked back in HoT iirc.

Rains have never been that good compared to our other nukes with the limitations they have. I still do not like the AE portion of them, it should be a spell that does straight up 3 nukes to your target and that is it.
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Piemastaj
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by Piemastaj »

deadman1204 wrote:I'm not a raider, but I wonder about mage raid opportunities in RoF. Wizards get bonus damage on their ethereals vs raid mobs, which may or may not be enough to to tie them with berzerkers/rogues. (I read that the jury is out until melee get their new raid weapons).

Either way, what has changed for mages to let them compete with any melee class in a raid setting?
Well no Melee in my raid can touch me for sustained. Depending on what the Wizard changes will do to their sustained (which they so generously forget to mention is quite nice), we should be fine. Our class design is slow and steady wins the race so to speak. Meaning the 40 to 60 second parses we will not and should not win. When we approach the 80 to 100 second mark is where things should become more even and we should start to pull ahead because of our disc timers.

Burst is great, and we will always keep asking for it. However,we shouldn't expect to get in Rog/Ber/Wiz range BURST levels. We should be competeing with Monk/BL for Burst levels compared to our sustained.
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Forte
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by Forte »

So, Wizards and mages are supposed to generate RoF - era DPS, without a Subtlety upgrade to match the inevitable increase in agro?

There are things I can do to make up part of the difference, but I would still say that someone screwed up there. :roll:
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deadman1204
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by deadman1204 »

Ya, it didn't make sense to me, we can watch our agro better, but in exchange we produce more agro
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Piemastaj
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by Piemastaj »

I never bought VoA ranks of ScS, and I was able to nuke perfectly fine in VoA w/o them. Not getting those AAs will make little difference to us if we are not in melee range because of our pets helping offset the aggro.

Wizards on the other hand get the short end of the stick.
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Voragath
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by Voragath »

You guys. Wait until you see the aggro meter. You'll understand why no upgrade. Like PJ said, we don't need it. The aggro meter makes that strikingly obvious.
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Nylrem01
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Re: NDA Lifted

Post by Nylrem01 »

Piemastaj wrote:IMHO its not really necessary to compare the 2 of them, both will be getting used. And I would bet a fair amount of plat that while we are using a disc Spear will out-do Rains. So probably the only time it will matter (timing aside that is), is possible when we are out of our discs.

Our top 2 spells will remain the same, Garg requires time to build up and Salvo will be our best nuke spell. Now your down to a 2.0 sec cast time (rains) and a 1.8 sec cast time (Blistersteel). When I placed it after Spear, about every 2 weaves I had enough time to possibly fit in a Sands nuke (.8 sec). I did not test this as it would have messed up the parses above, but visualizing it, I had quite a bit of blank time.

So essentially it leaves us with which one will work best in a Burn. Now in Beta I had crits over 200k on RoF Spear, the Avg crit I normally see from Rains is around 50 to 55k. 3x50= 150k vs 200k. So I would imagine while any disc is going we will probably want Spear in slot 3, however parsing would be required to see that for sure.

There is also the roadblock of Rains, doing less per target as more mobs get in range. And if any mezzed mobs are in range of the main target, they will get woken up.
I agree there is huge problems with rains, for many circumstances. However, saying that it's not necessary to compare them kind of boggles me. That's like saying it's not necessary to compare Salvo and Blistersteel to see which is more dps, because you're going to use both of them... Also, I don't see how you get average 200k crits with Blistersteel. I just parsed both with betabuffed mag in VoA group T4 gear, but did have RoF group arms (random drop Xorbb trash ones, 35-70% focus). With max RoF Fire Core, Elemental Union, and Intensity running, for Rain I got 156,987 as average (100% critical) hit, or 78,448 dps. For Blistersteel I got 128,592 as the avg (100% critical) hit, or 71,440 dps.

I attempted to run the test again with max RoF vapor core, but it would not take hold. I clicked all buffs off except intensity and it still would not take hold, so it looks like vapor core will not stack with intensity, will test that tomorrow after intensity repops, however, if that is the case, it looks like for an intensity burn, then it's going to be fire core as the mandatory choice anyway :(
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