December 20th:

[Voragath]

Mod rods are our only utility making mana regen a niche for us. Utility is utility, losing it is stupid if we do not have to. That is the bottom line. And if they are dead set on removing mod rods we need more burst for removing our utility. Plain and simple.

Accepting a loss is dumb.

I don't think they want to remove them, just think the value [on the aa rod] is higher than they like. They've never said they won't make a new aa for it, just that it's going to be awhile before they do.

[Cimmaron]

Nothing is going to happen to DCA. It will remain in the game as is. It is not broken in the slightest bit. It may work differently than we like now, but it works. Sony only refunds AA for those that are completely broken (and usually the AA is removed which is why you get the points back) or if it is made obsolete by some improvement (a good example here is origin where the character select screen had a better version so origin was made to reflect that and hastened origin aa's were refunded since they were no longer needed AND removed). Sony has never refunded points for a fully functional aa that was changed somewhat in functionality just because we don't like the change.

The only thing being done now is to find something to ADD to our aa list. We've asked for weaponshield since before UF.

This is total BS.

SOE 100% completely nerfed us with this change as we can no longer dps the mob.

From day one you and pie have been selling this to us and it stinks to high heaven. And yes...no matter how many times you repeat that it is not a nerf and it is not broken that statement will not be true.

Just admit it will ya.

And don't forget to tell them that Eldiroth said no to weaponshield....period

I have never ever stated it is not a nerf. It is. A nerf that was long coming because Eli dropped the ball. Big deal. This is how it goes in EQ. Just because something is nerfed does not mean it is broken. Broken means not working at all: eg. I click the aa and nothing happens.

You can redefine broken all you want. Hell, while you are at it, redefine any word you want. Just because you decide to redefine a word does not make the new definition valid.

DCA works. I click it, my pet gets DA. It is nerfed in that it no longer allows my pet to bypass normal PC DA mechanics.

Really, we keep running over the same ground. DCA got changed. It's time to move forward.

As to WS, that's WS as it is. It does not mean we can't push for an ability somewhat similar

With out Fade ability tied to our pet, DCA is useless in the middle of a fight. This is the time I always needed it, and by far most frequently used it. I get one more add than I can normally handle, I hit DCA and burn one down. I don't have to gate. From my impression, this is exactly what it is intended for by design - emergency situations. 18 seconds is certainly useful in burning down an extra add or two. I want to be able to do this again, or get my AAs back, because that is what I invested them for.

I would like to think that the mages representing us to the devs are working in the interest of all mages, not just raiders. I understand this ability was virtually worthless to a raider, but it had been mighty useful to us soloers.

I also cannot accept the argument that DCA should have worked exactly liked other classes that have DA. If that is the case, then why is our Fade ability linked to our pet? Why is it acceptable that we are an exception to one rule, but not another? If our Fade was linked to ourselves rather than our pet, then DCA would be useful again (albeit at the expense of my merc). But this is NOT the case.

As for any other use for it now, the only use I see for it is pet pulling trying to break a large crowd of mobs. Since I can easily pet pull pretty much all content with 2,3, or even 4 mobs and my pet will live long enough for companion or drape of shadows to take effect, again this makes DCA pointless. However, for mages not maxed out in defensive pet AAs, perhaps it would be useful for pulling. But speaking as a soloist, those defensive pet AAs were priority 1, way ahead of DPS AAs. I see absolutely no use for it at the beginning of any fight where I can't DPS as well.

[Voragath]

With out Fade ability tied to our pet, DCA is useless in the middle of a fight. This is the time I always needed it, and by far most frequently used it. I get one more add than I can normally handle, I hit DCA and burn one down. I don't have to gate. From my impression, this is exactly what it is intended for by design - emergency situations. 18 seconds is certainly useful in burning down an extra add or two. I want to be able to do this again, or get my AAs back, because that is what I invested them for.

I would like to think that the mages representing us to the devs are working in the interest of all mages, not just raiders. I understand this ability was virtually worthless to a raider, but it had been mighty useful to us soloers.

I also cannot accept the argument that DCA should have worked exactly liked other classes that have DA. If that is the case, then why is our Fade ability linked to our pet? Why is it acceptable that we are an exception to one rule, but not another? If our Fade was linked to ourselves rather than our pet, then DCA would be useful again (albeit at the expense of my merc). But this is NOT the case.

As for any other use for it now, the only use I see for it is pet pulling trying to break a large crowd of mobs. Since I can easily pet pull pretty much all content with 2,3, or even 4 mobs and my pet will live long enough for companion or drape of shadows to take effect, again this makes DCA pointless. However, for mages not maxed out in defensive pet AAs, perhaps it would be useful for pulling. But speaking as a soloist, those defensive pet AAs were priority 1, way ahead of DPS AAs. I see absolutely no use for it at the beginning of any fight where I can't DPS as well.

Three things:
1. Your whole first paragraph is how much use you got out of the aa.

How you used it is irrelevant and the fact you used it shows that you got what you paid for. In fact, devs always say that when discussing refunds: you used it, so why should it be refunded? AA's are based on dev design and intent and neither was ever explained when it got put in during UF.

2. Fade works as it does because you, as many others, misunderstand the purpose of fade.

Fade is not an escape tool, we just use it that way. Fade is an aggro reduction tool. The fact it is tied to our pet proves they don't want it abused as a form of escape; thus shutting down your weak argument to use Fade to somehow prove DCA's function. Fade and DCA are world's apart in functionality.

3. Depending on who you mean by "reps," they have already discussed this with the devs.

I know I spent time as soon as I found out about it discussing it with Eli and a few other devs. A few other mages have discussed it too. This is a change that's not going back because they fixed something they did not want happening. I do represent all mages so I am not fighting on this one because it would be a waste of my time and dev time when we could be working to fix other things like when pets were broken; like getting our regen woes taken care of; like getting dps boosts such as the raid flag for our clicky pets; like getting our mask put back on our pet; like making sure spell damage is correct; like getting our pets to tank better and earth aggro to be better; like getting the "of many" line damage bumped to account for lost hits, etc. Anyone who tries to imply that I'm not representing all mages would be mistaken. And if you are lumping PJ and others in as the unofficial reps, then they have done just as equal.

Here's what DCA is and was as PJ stated: a copy/paste of the spell DA. That's it. Eli literally copied the spell data. Done. It just so happened that pets followed normal npc rules for DA. It was pointed out in UF and for whatever reason did not get changed. Eli admitted to overlooking it and got it fixed. He made it, put it in, and knows what it's supposed to do. Everyone can argue until they are blue in the face how DCA was supposed to work but none of us here know; only Eli and maybe the other devs.

[deadman1204]

I disagree with saying fade is an agro reduction tool. While it was given to rogues as agro reduction WAY back when, mages are the only class who can't reliably use it as an escape tool. In fact, most classes have it on a timer that makes it unreliable as agro reduction, only as escape. Regardless of what devs say, 15/16 classes have it set up to function better as an escape tool than agro management tool.

At the same time, any of us can tell devs stuff till we die. They say DCA shouldn't let pets hold agro. End of argument. This is the way it is, lets get over it.

[dorfillya]

Not trying to be agrumentive or dumb, but I still am not clear on the current use of DCA and how it can help me. It seemed very nice before, but now I don't really get it.

[Savil]

I have never ever stated it is not a nerf. It is. A nerf that was long coming because Eli dropped the ball. Big deal. This is how it goes in EQ.

Hehehehe, I agree, Elidroth does tend to "drop the ball" a lot...

This never would have become an issue if Elidroth would have just *done his job* and fixed this after it was reported broken. Instead he let mages get used to the ability and then tries to change it (much like he did with the pallie screw up), its no wonder mages were upset by this. I do tend to agree that the ability was OP'ed and needed to be changed as it let mages do things that were umm, unbalanced.

Savil

[Felinya]

Not just mages here....necros as well used it to get a jump on dps on mobs as well. I remember using it in the mech guardian quest for the anniv solo/group events. You could cast DA (forgot the name of the necro spell), cast silent casting, load up the mob with dots, hit fortify companion, let pet try and tank it....dead mob and more than likely dead merc. This is now changed on necro's as well. This was a great tool but this is the game we are stuck with and so you have to be ok with these changes, however f'd up they are, or find another that suits you.

[Voragath]

Not trying to be agrumentive or dumb, but I still am not clear on the current use of DCA and how it can help me. It seemed very nice before, but now I don't really get it.

Welcome to how everyone felt when we got it in UF.

[Piemastaj]

Before you touch the mob with any type of aggro generation hit silent casting, then DCA your pet. You now have 18 seconds of aggro free DMG and also your pet will not take hits either. It is not ideal, but it absolutely works. It just does not work how it used to. And like I said, we have many ideas to work around this, however having guilds raid tank with pets hurts our chances.

Lol if I was asking for raid only changes our AA list would have looked loads different. Vora and myself have the community in mind when getting things done. Now there are specific instances where raiders need more help because our grp/solo is always very well off. However 9 times out of 10 a raid increase helps the grp game.

That being said any1 is more then welcome to request changes if they feel things are being done to alienate an aspect of our class.

[Danille]

Just to clarify for all MT members...

We appreciate diversity of input and each individual mage's opinion of what is good for the class given their playstyle.

Anyone who uses this board is more than welcome to request any changes they would like. Obviously, if those changes are well thought out, for a good reason, and will benefit mages, then those changes will most likely be embraced by those mages who feel the same way and will be supported.